Building unity and peace

He spearheaded the Maydown Youth Training Project Ltd - the precursor to the International School for Peace Studies, of which he is immensely proud.

What prompted you to embark on your peace work with young people through the International School for Peace Studies, because you started out with a very political life..?

The whole concept of the organisation was primarily our youth programme which started 30 years ago with the Maydown Youth Training Project.

How?

Well, I was so fed up with politics and I think I just got to the point where I felt it was a complete waste of time and I felt...

So you thought working with the youth was the way forward?

Yes. Always have done.

Right.

I believe that, hopefully, the through the young people we can try and build a normal society where people respect each other. That has always been the ethos of Maydown Youth Training Project Ltd. We are a charitable organisation, and the Maydown Youth Training Project Ltd was based down at Lisahally. We deliberately went outside the City so that we could attract the kids from both communities and that was very successful.

What is the importance to you, from your perspective and from your background, of the benefit to the Protestant identity of what you do?

I think the main thing is for people to have confidence in themselves. If people have confidence in themselves then they don't fear this concept of a multi-cultural society. If you have confidence in yourself it doesn't matter where you are: That's what you are, that is your vein, that's your culture and you will practice what you are no matter where you are under whatever regime. I think that from that that confidence gives people the opportunity to express themselves better.

How did you gou about drawing in people from the Catholic community? Was that difficult for you?

No it wasn't because my whole life before that was the Trades Union movement. I was a very active Trade Unionist and through that I certainly had built up a great rapport with people from both sides of the house as a fair person who delivered, and who acted in a very fair manner. I suppose people say I am hard line in many respects. I am hard line on those things that I believe in and those are non-negotiable, but I think you can be hard and you can be fair, and hopefully it has come across that I am a fair person.

Certainly, on February 22, 1999, you were voted European of the Year, or you won that award, presented by the then Irish Premiere, Bertie Ahern. What were you presented that accolade for?

For the work in Belgium and the creation, along with the partner that I had in those days across the Border, we created the Island of Ireland Peace Park, which was the start of our programme, in Belgium, in Messines itself, in memory of all the Irish killed in the First World War, but particularly the Battle of Messines in 1917, when the two sides fought side-by-side, which we didn't know about it. I didn't know anything about it and was never taught about it in school that Protestants and Catholics actually fought side-by-side in 1917.

It came as a big revelation to you then?

It did. It came as a shock. I was angry, I was bitter. I suppose I blame myself. I was an adult so I could have tried to find out about these things, but we were brought up basically, our Mecca was always the Battle of the Somme. My father had fought at the Somme, my mother's four brothers fought at the Somme and my father's brother had become a prisoner of war in the First World War. That was, as far as I was concerned, was the First World War. It was the 36th Ulster Division and the revelation that they had fought side-by-side with the 16th Royal Irish at the battle of Messines in 1971 was a shock and the fact that so many Catholics had fought and died was another revelation.

Was that the catalyst that started you on this path?

Towards this in 1996, yes, and of course, when we built the Island of Ireland Peace Park in Messines, and it was opened in 2008 by HM the Queen, President McAleese and the Belgian King. I went on to do my own stuff then, because I felt that our own people had to find out about this and not be kept in the dark as I was kept in the dark. That inspired me then to start the International School for Peace Studies, and it has taken off since that. It has slowly but surely got the reputation and has become one of the primary, and indeed has been mentioned by the Taoiseach at the time and other, that the Messines Programme played a major contribution in the whole Peace Process because it freed up Catholics to be able to voice their opinion.

It also allowed them to acknowledge that members of their family had worn uniforms and fought.

That's right.

I know earlier this year we were talking and you had a group of Greek and Turkish Cypriots over here, so this isn't the only 'divided island' so to speak that you are involved with...

All my days, and even in my political days, I have believed that the one place in the world that I think is very similar to here is Cyprus in that there are two Sovereign people and two Sovereign Governments that are fighting over a strip of land. That is exactly what is happening in Northern Ireland, and we were never allowed to find our common identity because the two protagonists were the two Sovereign powers - the Republic and Great Britain. I have always believed that if we were freed from those shackles that we would have to find commonality because, I have said before, we have more in common with our nextdoor neighbours than we have with the English, and likewise, Catholics in the North have much more in common with us than they have with the people in the Republic and that has been borne out on many many occasions. You ask the English they say they want rid of us, and if you ask the people in the Republic they will say the same thing 'We don't want the North and all their Troubles'.' So where are we?

How come you had Greek and Turkish people here?

We started work in Pyla in the buffer zone where Turk and cypriot villagers have lived together, although they didn't mix too well - they had done before the war, but the war had divided them. Of course, the Turkish side were under extreme pressure from the Turkish regime in the north of the island to stay clear of the Greek Cypriots. So, we were there and did work there, and we had brought a group of the kids to Messines for two weeks with 18 of our Irish kids. Then the Irish kids went and spent six weeks in Cyprus with the kids in Pyla, and we had another programme in Nicosia a year later, and the people were keen to come and do a programme here, so 20 Cypriot university students were here for 10 days.

How did they find it?

Absolutely superb. The kids had to come here in different planes, because the Turkish kids had to come out through Ercan and the Greek Cypriot kids came out through Larnaca o the other side of the island. One group was a day behind the other because of the flight times, and that was the same when the kids came with us to Messines as well. They were not allowed to leave from the one part of the island. We had a bit of bother the first time in Messines because when the Turkish kids came they didn't want to stay under the same roof as the Greek kids, so we had a bit of persuasion to do in the early part of that programme, but by the time they went home the Greek kids were dancing with Turkish kids and they were teaching each other about their different cultures, dances and their food.

Has that been maintained?

It has and the Mayors work closely together now.

That must warm you.

It does, yeah. But the effort is down to them. I always say we cannot be parachuted in to solve people's problems, the only people who can solve problems are themselves. The thing is to get them to the point where they want to solve them...